Curse

Divinitys Creature · Sep 21, 2005, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

So in escence you are asking what do I and everyone else feel about those who wish to remain ignorant?

Taking this to be the issue central to your post I have the following comments to make.

I cannot say how annoying I find a self imposed ignorance, especially when it comes to the important matters in life. People should be willing to change their ideas and their mindset or at least to test their current one. If you willingly accept ignorance you have no foundation for informed decision making. Thus you can be easily led by the generalisations that others make. This is a recipe for disaster, since such a population can easily be manipulated.

People learn a lot from each other if they are willing to. If however people remain in isolated ignorance, they will never understand one another. Great human injustices have been made through self imposed ignorance forcing peoples apart.

I understand some people prefer to remain ignorant with regards to some areas of life, since this igorance for them equates to mystery and this mystery to beauty. The phrase "ignorance is bliss" sums up this idea in a succient manner. This removal of mystery and thus beauty, animated by moving away from a life of ignorance should not deter us from this course. Our understanding of everything that we know of is ever complex and the fact that we will never truely understand anything represents a beauty beyond comprehension.

I find the fact that we have a mind a gift and that we should use this gift as much as we can within our own limits. To deny your mind is to deny yourself.

And here I go with the knowledge sharing. I think you meant to type "succinct"

SOT · Sep 21, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

I think I mean to just say this once: What is the cost to society in statistical or logistical representation, when idiocy is as rampant as it is in modern society.

For comparison:

In the middle ages, there was always a village idiot. This person was the town drunkard, or the moron who was mentally ill, or what have you, and they were constantly on the outs with shopkeeps, the local authorities, or the monarchy detachments that lorded over their respective domains.

In the present day, the town moron has been replaced by the 'moron state', and I am curious if anyone can give me some definitve anaylsis as to why moronic behavior, as in idiocy, has become so...easy to get by with. In the dark ages, idiocy got your plague, or rape, or death, or whatever. Now, it gets you a sitcom or talk show...

Thanas · Sep 21, 2005, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOT

Well said

Why thankyou. I'm suprised I managed to actually write anything. Was writing that at the end of my 10 hour shift at work. By all accounts I should have been braindead.

And to Divinity I think your right. As I said it twas the end of a 10 hour stint. Since I'm allergic to work thats more than enough for me.

Thanas · Sep 22, 2005, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOT

I think I mean to just say this once: What is the cost to society in statistical or logistical representation, when idiocy is as rampant as it is in modern society.

For comparison:

In the middle ages, there was always a village idiot. This person was the town drunkard, or the moron who was mentally ill, or what have you, and they were constantly on the outs with shopkeeps, the local authorities, or the monarchy detachments that lorded over their respective domains.

In the present day, the town moron has been replaced by the 'moron state', and I am curious if anyone can give me some definitve anaylsis as to why moronic behavior, as in idiocy, has become so...easy to get by with. In the dark ages, idiocy got your plague, or rape, or death, or whatever. Now, it gets you a sitcom or talk show...

Firstly I'd say that this idea that stupidity is now universal is not true. It is only the western world which can get away with this mass idiocy. This is down to the mothering character i.e. over supportive nature of Western goverment. Obviously there are limits to how goverments may look after us, but ultimately we have far more breathing space than we did earlier in our history and in comparison to poorer nations. This supportiveness gives people a sense of security. This feeling then assists in the propogation of the notion of stupidity being a postive characteristic since there are no apparent consequences or at least serious ones in behaving in this fashion.

Arturo02 · Sep 22, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

Firstly I'd say that this idea that stupidity is now universal is not true. It is only the western world which can get away with this mass idiocy. This is down to the mothering character i.e. over supportive nature of Western goverment. Obviously there are limits to how goverments may look after us, but ultimately we have far more breathing space than we did earlier in our history and in comparison to poorer nations. This supportiveness give people a sense of security. This feeling then assists in the propogation of the notion of stupidity being a postive characteristic since there are no apparent consequences or at least serious ones in behaving in this fashion.

I'm willing to guess that if you were to visit every country in the world, you'd find stupid people.

Back on point....

-Health care costs. It is stupid to eat bad foods or smoke. It costs everyone.
And the people who love you get less time to share with you because you were stupid.

-Higher gas prices. It is stupid to use oil as a fuel source or not develop alternate forms of energy.

-Living in disaster-prone areas. It is stupid because you lose everything you own and worse, friends and loved ones. This costs everyone as we have seen time and time again.

-Driving. It is stupid to not pay attention or not to try and be a good driver. It costs us with bodily injury and worse death, but also higher insurance rates.

The problem with stupidity is that unlike in the animal world, we can't push the dumb people to the outside of the herd where the predators can eat them.

SOT · Sep 23, 2005, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo02

The problem with stupidity is that unlike in the animal world, we can't push the dumb people to the outside of the herd where the predators can eat them.

You are my personal hero

Naprius · Sep 23, 2005, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

The problem with stupidity is that unlike in the animal world, we can't push the dumb people to the outside of the herd where the predators can eat them.

In fact we can, we can mentally torture the stupid untill they want to kill themselves.

Thanas · Sep 23, 2005, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturo02

I'm willing to guess that if you were to visit every country in the world, you'd find stupid people.

The point I made was referring to mass idiocy. This was in reply to the re-itteration of the OP.

Naprius · Sep 23, 2005, 08:02 AM // 08:02

i think you need to go to Iraq to see mass idiocy

Bad_Monkey6186 · Sep 23, 2005, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naprius

In fact we can, we can mentally torture the stupid untill they want to kill themselves.

No we can't, logic is impossible to use against people who don't understand it. They'd just throw, uh, for lack of a better, or should I say more creative, word, idiocys back at us.

Naprius · Sep 23, 2005, 08:09 AM // 08:09

hmm. well ok. they're stupid, so they wouldn't notice they're eating cyanide instead of a normal peanutbutter sandwich, would they?

Me NoFat · Sep 23, 2005, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

Also, I'd add to laziness the theory of lemmings: People want to be told what to do, when to do it and how. They don't give a damn about the whys or trying to think for themselves.

I can admit it. I am a part time moron...until I stop to think about it. The Marines made me enjoy life in the form of the above statement. There is something great about not deciding. Ultimately though not deciding is the wrong decision.

As far as M. Moore goes...I have read his books and viewed his ...ahem.. documentaries. They are good entertainment and very...ummm.

If you like something then read about it from the masses not the individual. If you hate something then protest it in your way. If you don't care enough to know it then leave it to someone that does. Your voice is needed when your mind is active, your soul is in it, and your attitude is correct. No sooner and no later.

Here's to knowing what you know and shutting up about what you don't!

The cost is one wasted life with little impact every 3-5 seconds. Ok I made up that statistic but you get the point. You are the cost of stupidity. Do not pay too much.

Cheers

Xue Yi Liang · Sep 23, 2005, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Ignorance isn't stupidity. Ignorance is a conscious and deliberate refusal to acknowledge information that is contrary to a presumed and convenient world-view.
Some of the smartest people in public are also the most ignorant.

Even a stupid person can learn,

but an ignorant person will never understand.

There is a collective price payed by the ignorance of a community.

However, on an individual level, ignorance remains a blissful state - that's why people still indulge in it.

We live in a time when the virtues of individuality and personal rights are paramount, but the notions of community service and personal responsibility are spat upon.

We live in a time when people decry military service and the duties of law enforcement who aren't perfect but do 1,000 things right every day that we'll never hear about
yet laud some self-indulgent movie celebrity as a hero for a single pointless theatrical display of defiance.

We live in a time when the individual is more important than the community.

That's why we live in a time where ignorance thrives.

SOT · Sep 23, 2005, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xue Yi Liang

Ignorance isn't stupidity. Ignorance is a conscious and deliberate refusal to acknowledge information that is contrary to a presumed and convenient world-view

Which is acting stupid. I rest my case.

Thanas · Sep 23, 2005, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOT

Which is acting stupid. I rest my case.

Thats where I was sorting of going with my reasoning earlier on.

Dumb Quixote · Sep 23, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Can't have the Yin without the Yang. Without everyone's perceived ignorance/idiocy, you'd never feel so f*ing brilliant. It's the old expression: A vase is both space and absence of space.

And just like bad driving, nobody has the insight to know that they are someone else's idea of a bad driver. It's like a stench... you can only smell it on other people even if you are reeking of it.

SOT · Sep 23, 2005, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumb Quixote

Can't have the Yin without the Yang. Without everyone's perceived ignorance/idiocy, you'd never feel so f*ing brilliant. It's the old expression: A vase is both space and absence of space.

And just like bad driving, nobody has the insight to know that they are someone else's idea of a bad driver. It's like a stench... you can only smell it on other people even if you are reeking of it.

Feel free to speak in English at any time.

Dumb Quixote · Sep 23, 2005, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Aww, now quit acting stupid.

SOT · Sep 23, 2005, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumb Quixote

Aww, now quit acting stupid.

In point of fact, I have no idea what your post meant. Just attempting to clarify what you meant.

Xue Yi Liang · Sep 23, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOT

Which is acting stupid. I rest my case.

If I understand correctly you're saying that "ignorance=stupidity"? If you define stupidity to mean anything bad or disagreeable then you will have made that point. In which case: murder is stupid, poverty is stupid, nerfing is stupid ... etc. But that's not the same thing as ignorance.

If you're going to quote me you ought to use "stupidity" in the way I defined it.

(Damnit. I'm reading this and I really sound like I have a bug up my ass. Forgive me - I'm not jumping down your throat. I'm just being a technicality-twat.)

To clarify a statement I made earlier: Ignorance can be defined as either a) the lack of information or b) a conscious and deliberate refusal to regard information that contradicts their presumed and convenient world-view.

A "stupid" person reaches the wrong conclusion only because of a flawed line of reasoning - but is open to the possibility of enlightenment.

An "ignorant" person either a) doesn't know the truth or b) doesn't want to know the truth.

You don't have to be "stupid" to be "ignorant." Many intelligent people are ignorant.

-
Let's put this in mathematical terms:

(reason) x (fact) = (truth)

A "stupid" person lacks reason.
An "ignorant" person lacks fact.
That's why neither one can/will get to the truth.

*don't apply Boolean logic to the equation (i.e. a person who is both ignorant AND stupid won't give you the truth)